| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Update!
Tough Justice & Hard Times Mod
This mod will change
the following game-play settings….
Crime:
Old
value on left/New value on right
0.0000 f DispCrimeMod
1.5000
(effects NPC disposition times criminal status)
100 DaysinPrisonMod 400
(fairly obvious)
2000.0000 fAlarmRadius 4000.0000
(creates a larger crime
alert radius)
1000 iCrimeKilling 9500
(new gold amount
for crime)
40 iCrimeAttack 4000
(as above)
25
iCrimePickPocket 2000
5 iCrimeTresspass 1000
1.0000
fCrimeStealing 9.0000
(amount multiplied by item value)
0.5000 fCrimeGoldDiscountMult 0.7000
(discount from the
thieves guild to clear crimes)
0.9000 fCrimeTurnInMult
0.9500
(discount from guards if you turn yourself in)
Barter/Bribe/Trader changes:
24.0000
fBarterGoldResetDelay168.0000
(amount of hours before Traders
have gold)
-1fBarterFailDisposition -10
0.50000
fDispPersonalityMult 0.30000
(rate by which your personality
level affects disposition)
-1.0000 fDispBargainFailMod
-20.000
(effects long-term Trader disposition)
-4.000
fBargainOfferMult -2.000
(effects how much a trader will give
you for items)
35.0000 fBribe10Mod 05.0000
(effects
disposition a lot less now for 10 Gold Bribe)
75.0000
fBribe100Mod15.0000
150.0000 fBribe1000Mod30.0000
Most Traders will have two new abilities:
Trader
Guile: Fortifies mercantile 45 points
Trader Tongue: Fortifies
Speechcraft 25 points
A lot of small traders will have a
little more money also.
I have more changes to implement
including
Disease chance increase
Expensive weapon &
armor drops less frequent
Very expensive cure common disease
potions and blight potions.
As well as Trainer max teachable
level adjustments
and adding some exorbitant trainer costs.
Mudcrab and Creeper will meet their maker.
Tweaks to
enchanting, to make you use more soul gems to recharge your
equipment… among others.
If you have any intelligent
comments please feel free to post. I will take ALL ideas and
comments into consideration.
--------------------
But I, being poor, have only
my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread
softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras:    |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Your
fCrimeTurnInMult....currently if you turn yourself into the guards
and have a 100 bounty, you get a 10% discount...the guards only take
90 septims. With your change I think now the guards will be giving
you a 90% discount you only pay 10 septims on a 100 septim bounty. I
suspect you want an 05 or an 00 discount so 95 or 100 for the
fcrimeturninmult.
Likewise for the thieves guild discount it is
currently 50% if you want it to be less you have to lower the
discount value result. so instead of 30 I think you want 70
there.
The rest of it looks like hardtimes indeed for the stealth
types and the poor bartering types.
Post Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Thanks Iudas,
nice to hear from you : )
I was'nt at all sure if I had the
fCrimeTurnInMult and the Thieves Guild one the right way around. I
still have no PC to test this, so it's all from memory and "Red
eyed" research.
Thank you for pointing this out for me
Iudas.
I have a list also of weapon drop changes which I will
type up and post soon.
Some of the default "Chance None" drops I
actually found shocking!
Like 0 for Daedric Weapons.
You
know, I thought a Mod like this would generate more
interest...
game styles change over time I suppose.
Thanks
again!
--------------------
But I, being poor, have only
my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread
softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Quote:
You know, I thought a Mod like this would generate more
interest...
game styles change over time I suppose.
Well, if the mod works, it
makes the game much more difficult at the lower and middle levels,
and does it without killing anything, introducing any new weapons,
fantastic armours, or smart gadgets.
Face it BlindEye ( I
couldn't resist ) mercantile and speechcraft and bribery and
diseases and such are the plumbing and nobody gets excited about
plumbing until the toilet overflows. If MW were multiplayer or
MMORPG, then the bartering system and the crafting systems would be
important because they are how the MMORPG players interact. But who
is there to interact with in MW? Interacting with JoeBob the
Galactic spork maven in some online game is interacting with a real
someone ( or his bot ), interacting with Ariele in Seyda Neen is not
the same thing at all.
Likewise all the crafting mods coming out.
Grand and glorious examples of the mod makers creativity but.....who
do you sell the crafted items too? Arielle? Wayn?
I suspect
that when the Devs were laying out this game, they never expected
players to stay with the same characters much past the level needed
to win the main quest ( about level 20 ). The smashing success of MW
led to two expansions both of which take a bit higher level to "win"
for most folks. Say level 30 to be comfortable in Trib and level 40
to 50 to walk all over Hircine in BM. But what were adequate
mercantile and speechcraft assumptions for a game where you expect
folks to stop at level 20 are not adequate anymore. So with each of
the newer stronger userland mods the problems in the plumbing become
more and more obvious.
Post Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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You know
Iudas... my conundrum is this: I simply can't play the game anymore
the way it is; yet I have forked out thousands for a new system,
just to play the game.
What you have written in you're post in
the other thread about the saltrice, is not something I was not
aware of... yet I still found it disheartening to read afresh;
because here is one of those hardcoded walls that can't be breached
by a mod; and yet it is defective, and cries out for a "rational"
solution.
I'll carry on anyways and hopefully bring a little
enjoyment to the game for someone.
--------------------
But I, being poor, have only my
dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread
softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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And yes! The
Devs had never anticipated such. I was always a little perplexed
when I started playing the game for the first couple of times, how
at level 20, I was told I would never be better than today... yet I
could easily reach thirty and forty with the ridiculous exploits,
with no further grandiose passages to accompany my Godliness would
ever appear.
--------------------
But I, being poor, have
only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Yes and I
believe there is a fancy name for the hate/love thing we all have
with MW. And I am told and have read that the same holds true for
its predecessors.
Now if you have forked out thousands on a fine
gaming machine. There are some games out there that will give your
machine a workout. IL2 and LockOn will tax you if you enjoy flying
the unfriendly skies. If you have a fine sound system installed then
Thief 3 ( which has about 0 replay interest ) will make that
investment worth while.
If you installed the NextGen video card
and have the twitch reflexes Doom3 is one hell of a piece of work.
And none of them have that certain something that MW has. Too many
strokes of genius combined with too many sore thumbs and bonehead
mistakes make MW a keeper long after any interest in NWN has been
flushed with last years Hawaiian Shirts.
I am sure that you
understand my intent was not to be disheartening nor discouraging.
Since MW appeared I have bought and played through at least a
half a dozen other RPGs only Gothic2 came anywhere close to being as
in the same league.
We fix what we think is fixable and create
fantasies to explain the flaws.
Take a look at Telesphoros' list
of mods, and the thread about How far we have come. There really is
no need to play MW the way it was released. For examples CON2 and
Illuminated Order, two superb quests good plots believable
activities and motivations interesting twists and turns overall much
better Large Quests than the Main Quest in MW. Muck Shovel of Vivec
one of the fine small quest mods, truly excellent work that fits
like a butt in a comfy chair into the lore of MW. MW might be a
flawed game now but it is one superb framework to hang fine art
from. Two years ago there was a thread here about balancing spells,
the thread ran over 40 pages of sometimes abstruse math the result
was one of the smallest mods with one of the largest effects on
gameplay yet released. Two little changes to two gamesettings and
suddenly battles actually made sense, the critters and villains
actually acted somewhat like intelligent critters and villains not
like kamikaze warriors. The rest of the mod made NPC's smarter,
better armed, more competent with magic.
So I expect your mod
will make the 5th leg of MW a bit stronger. It is the leg that has
been the most ignored.
Combat, Magic, Stealth, Quests and Story,
and Economics.
Post Extras: |
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Quote:
And yes! The Devs had never anticipated such. I was always a
little perplexed when I started playing the game for the first
couple of times, how at level 20, I was told I would never be
better than today... yet I could easily reach thirty and forty
with the ridiculous exploits, with no further grandiose passages
to accompany my Godliness would ever appear.
you know that you can change
those in the configuration files, so that you can have inspirational
messages up to level 100. that's a simple text edit.
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this is true,
however, if you right the messages your self, they arent very
insperational when you know what its going to say before you get
them, this i why when i go to edit that file, i dont scroll any
further down the page than i have to...althought doing this henders
what i can do with the file somewhat. 
--------------------
You dont go to war to die for you
country, you go to war to make your enemy die for his.
Post Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Tough
Justice & Hard Times Weapon drop adjustments…
To
those who are not familiar with the CS, “Chance None” is a
Leveled List setting, which controls the percentage out of 100,
that items in a particular Leveled list, have a chance of
appearing
in the game world; be it, within chests, barrels,
baskets and on
the bodies of slain creatures.
Below are
the default “Chance None” values (on left) coupled with
my
humble changes (on right ).
Old value on left/New value
on right.
0 random_daedric_weapon 97
10
random_dwemer_armour 90
20 random_dwemer_weapon 90
0
random_Golden_Saint_Shield 90
0 random_Golden_Saint_Weapon 90
0 random_iron_weapon 50
0 random_nordic_weapon 60
0
random_silver_weapon 80
5 random_steel_weapon 60
0
BM_Imperial Guard Random Weapon 20
0 bm_random_nordhunterweapon
50
20 bm_random_nordsilver 60
0 bm_random_skall 60
20
bm_random_weapon_berserker 30
0 bm_randomwpn_smuggler 40
0
goblin_weapons_random 40
0 Imperial Guard Random Weapon 30
20 random ebony weapon 95
0 random excellent melee weapon 97
0 random orcish armor 80
0 random_armour_glass 95
0
random_armour_steel 50
0 random_glass_weapon 97
0
random_imp_armor 30
Please feel free to discuss the drops
and anything
else you might think, might make Morrowind
more
enjoyable, by making it harder.
Thank you for reading this.
--------------------
But I, being poor, have
only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
| Ronin49 |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 03/08/04 |
| Posts: 1792 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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BlindEye
-
Quote:
You know, I thought a Mod like this would generate more
interest...
game styles change over time I suppose.
There is interest all right.
Sometimes it seems best to let the folk who know what they are doing
get on with it! And it's summertime with all that entails here. 
[And
sometimes a few more words on context near the top - why,
relationship to Wakim's and other game improvements etc, what
specific feedback/comment requested - might help promote more
general contributions to the discussion?]
These are important
changes you are working with, fundamental to game challenge and the
desire to replay. 'Plumbing,' as Iudas titles it, simply does not
catch as much instant interest as the latest sexy face or manga
retex. It does garner a more enduring interest though. 
Keep at it.
I would appreciate it, as you develop your
descriptions in this thread, if you could summarize in plain-speak
what these adjustments will do compared to other 'balancing' changes
made elsewhere.
--------------------
"And to everyone
seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer
to all your troubles." Neoptolemus
Mythic Mods
----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.
Post Extras: |
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I think it´s
ridiculous when you get more bounty for stealing a (daedric) weapon
than for a murder.
And Iudas what´s the name of the mod you
were talking about?
--------------------
Don´t argue with
idiots, they drag you down to their level, then beat you with
experience.
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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In theory,
Daedric weapons are less common than NPCs.
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My god this
mod will make thievery a living nightmare.
I like the idea of
changing the levelled list drops though. The really expensive items
aren't the only things that need changing though.
Crates in
particular need to be sorted out. Current levelled lists give pretty
much the bets possible contents when that player's at level 20. Why
not scale that up to 40 or 50? That way I won't come out of every
outlaw cave weighed down with 300 grand soulgems and a sackful of
assorted 'rare' gemstones.
Excellent looking mod though. Will
try it out when I next get round to starting a new character
--------------------
LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread
Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
| Biges |
| Novice |
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| Reged: 07/21/04 |
| Posts: 40 |
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That's nice.
The question is: WHO is going to use this mod? People who don't like
to steal and kill innocents? Well, maybee, but they won't commint
such crimes anyway. And these enjoying such deeds? No.
Anyway, I
feel the worst punishement for stealing etc. is the need to put down
all stuff the PC carries, for not to have this seized by a guard
Where
is this mod avalaible for DW?
Btw, I also thought 'bout
adding some enchantment for merachants etc., but in the end, I
needed to edit them all anyway... so... etc.
(lazy to finish the sentence... )
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Quote:
And Iudas what´s the name of the mod you were talking about?
Wakim's Game Improvements,
modular, the balance gamesettings module two changes to two GMSTS.
The other modules are superb also.
Post
Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Ronin49:
I
would appreciate it, as you develop your descriptions in this
thread, if you could summarize in plain-speak what these adjustments
will do compared to other 'balancing' changes made
elsewhere.
BlindEye:
This will be a modular mod.
Crime
in a separate plugin, Traders, weapons drops, and whatever else I
implement.
The end user will have the choice to mix and match
with whatever they feel will suit them best.
I will not touch the
Fortify intelligence potion issue as this is already handled with
Sri’s Alchemy. Same thing with locks and traps and spells as
these too are readily available and handled better than I could ever
do, in popular mods.
VenomByte:
My god this mod will
make thievery a living nightmare.
I like the idea of changing
the leveled list drops though. The really expensive items aren't the
only things that need changing though.
Crates in particular
need to be sorted out. Current leveled lists give pretty much the
bets possible contents when that player's at level 20. Why not scale
that up to 40 or 50? That way I won't come out of every outlaw cave
weighed down with 300 grand soulgems and a sackful of assorted
'rare' gemstones.
BlindEye:
I agree about the crates and
the leveled lists. I’ll have a look at them too.
Thanks.
--------------------
But I, being
poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your
feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B.
Yates
Post Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
|
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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You know, as I
have said to Iudas, I can't play Morrowind the way it is.
Morrowind is challenging in the first ten Levels.
Morrowind
is Childs-play after Level 15.
Now... what if we can change the
fundamental aspects of the game,
to give that challenge back, in
the area where it is lacking the most?
This Mod (or series of
mods) is/will not be a definitive solution.
In fact I don't
think there is one!
But what if we can come close to it?
In about a month all seven mods (I think) will be released.
Anyone is free to try them, Bash them, defecate on them, cry
about them, dismantle them or hopefully like them; in the end I
don't really care because I will have tried my best at doing
something to make a playing experience I love, last a little longer.
--------------------
But I, being poor, have only my
dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread
softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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I was up all
night editing traders; I've changed the trader
class to have
Personality and Mercantile top of the Major skills
list,
followed by Unarmored.
Primary Attributes are now Personality
and Luck, and
each of these traders are level 60 which pushes
their
respective Merc and speech to 89.
I have also
changed the Mercantile skill itself from
0.30 successful bargain
to 0.25
1.00 successful Bribe to 0.90
All other service
classes (traders) will also have to be changed,
with Personality
first and foremost in the Major skills as it is
this that
governs bribing.
All other Traders will have two new
abilities;
Trader Guile: fortify Mercantile 45
Trader
Tongue: fortify Personality 25
Back to bribery…
Bribery
is a cancer to this game. NPC’s give very little extra
information when bribed like... tell you where a Master trainer
is,
or direct you useful game-play concessions; bribery,
is
only useful at the very start of the game when you have not got an
arse in you're pants and need the persuasion to get a little better
gold from NPC traders and Travel service providers; but Beth has
allowed this "Pandora" dweller to run riot after it has served it's
initial propose. If you go to a Trainer and bribe the sap 3000 gold
to Train you at 100% Disposition, you will have saved a tonne of
gold; had you just used his Trainer service and let his Disposition
rise (cough) naturally, it would have cost you a lot more.
I
have been thinking about making Leveled Traders OR at least to have
one. But it will come after this mod because if I start that one,
nothing will get finished.
As I was looking at the TESCS
throughout the night, i have come to realize that all Traders crates
will have to have new lists of goods.
--------------------
But I,
being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under
your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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It seems as
though all I do is rain on your good ideas, and here I am going to
do it again.
Think in % changes not in numeral
changes.
Example: you cut the effect of a successful barter by
5/6ths 83%.
Try a little delicacy in the % cuts.
MW uses a lot
of fSomethings and they are always Multipliers on something else. So
small changes have big effects.
Quote:
If you want to buy/sell books... go to a Bookshop.
If you
want to buy/sell Potions... go to a Temple/Healer/Alchemist.
If you want to buy/sell Magic items... go to an Enchanter.
If you want to buy/sell Misc crap... go to a pawnbroker.
If you want to buy/sell ingredients... an Alchemist/Temple
Healer/Healer.
If you want to break a lot of
really good mods also. Just off the top of my head, NOM and CM2 and
MTT and a dozen other good to great mods add various books, items,
foodstuffs, grills, potions to various traders all over MW.
Huge
numbers of mods add weapons, armours, gadgets, books and
miscellaneous items to the various Pawnbrokers.
Arielle at the
start of the game sells a broad line of goods; it would not be a
balancing thing to restrict him to just pots bowls and
candlesticks.
While I may not expect to find spoons mixed in with
my suits ( at least not soup spoons ) at the clothiers, it bothers
me not at all that the clothier might also have enchanted items of
clothing to sell. It is roleplaying to go to the Pawnbroker and buy
stuff that other unfortunate adventurers had to pawn...their loss is
my gain.
Bribery is overvalued as a contributor to increase
in Mercantile, indeed yes; but cutting it by 90% is tossing out the
baby with the bathwater and the tub and the interior plumbing too.
The effects of small septim bribes on merchant and trainer
disposition is overpowered .... so muck about with the fBriberymods
values to make shortpockets bribes worthless in raising disposition
and deeppocket bribes worth a bit less. Early game Trainingpacking
becomes harder and latergame trainingpacking becomes costlier ...
appropriate to the PC's approx monetary situation.
Consider
how wakim approached service refusals also. "If you don't belong we
ain't interested", and "if you do belong and you are a factionnewb;
we still ain't interested but we are polite about it." Makes buying
and selling a serious process instead of just finding anyone with
BarterGold and clicking the buttons. Balmora can be a cold old town
for a Redoran who isnt in the fighter's guild or the mage's guild or
the thieves guild. Gnisis can be a cruel visit if you aren't in the
Legion or the Temple. Sadrith Mora can be right evil if you are in
the Mage's and one of the other houses but not Telvani. And on that
topic, another way to make the game more...interesting is the
faction reaction table. Negative Disp points for being the wrong
faction is a GOODTHING©.
I don't have the equations to give an
exact answer but: Island wide Reputation translates into higher
dispostions which translates into easier bargaining and better
values. There is a post in the spoilers forum that totals up the REP
points the PC can accumulate while playing. 140+ if memory serves.
Maybe all those dialogue results that bump REP could be edited a wee
bit, I mean I know it is a tiny island ( 25 sq miles including
Solstheim and Mournhold ) but that much REP in a small place is just
ridiculous.
So with your added abilities to Merchants along
with the wholly proper changes to their class attributes, Merchants
will now average about 125 in Mercantile and 100 in Speechcraft.
This is like giving DagUr a level of 1000 ingame and no one else
that the PC meets along the road is over 60. Just not balanced at
all.
Trader's crates need a good reworking, actually most
levelled items need that.
When you start doing econ mods you quickly appreciate the virtues of
a shaved head. So much less pain when you try to pull the hair
out.
Post Extras: |
| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Hi
Iudas,
Quote:
Think in % changes not in numeral changes.
Example: you cut
the effect of a successful barter by 5/6ths 83%.
Try a little
delicacy in the % cuts.
MW uses a lot of fSomethings and they
are always Multipliers on something else. So small changes have
big effects.
I admit I have been over
zelous with this. (Although nothing yet is set in
stone).
Quote:
If you want to break a lot of really good mods also. Just off
the top of my head, NOM and CM2 and MTT and a dozen other good to
great mods add various books, items, foodstuffs, grills, potions
to various traders all over MW.
Consider this change as
nonexistant. I will put the Trader sell/buys Item list back to
normal. I would never intentionally break someone elses
work.
Quote:
The effects of small septim bribes on merchant and trainer
disposition is overpowered .... so muck about with the
fBriberymods values to make shortpockets bribes worthless in
raising disposition and deeppocket bribes worth a bit less. Early
game Trainingpacking becomes harder and latergame trainingpacking
becomes costlier ... appropriate to the PC's approx monetary
situation.
I have already gone that route
Iudas,
posted above at the start of the
thread.
fBribe10Mod
fBribe100Mod
fBribe1000Mod
These
have already been changed.
Quote:
So with your added abilities to Merchants along with the
wholly proper changes to their class attributes, Merchants will
now average about 125 in Mercantile and 100 in Speechcraft. This
is like giving DagUr a level of 1000 ingame and no one else that
the PC meets along the road is over 60. Just not balanced at
all.
The two abilities are only for
the traders
scattered about that don't fall into Trader
Service,
Alchemist Service ect. These only get the 45 Merc and 25
Speech
Trader Service providers ( like Arrille ) have been
leveled at 60;
which gives them 89 Merc, and 89 in
speechcraft.
This is also taking into account that
Personality
and Mercantile are top of their Major Skills in
their
respective class.
Quote:
Trader's crates need a good reworking, actually most leveled
items need that.
I think almost all crates will
have to be altered. The items only, not the ID's, so as not to mess
with other peoples mods.
Iudas, if I pair back the
mercantile skill changes, would you think
89 in Merc and 89 in
speechcraft is excessive?
Oh, I have also given Trader
service providers 30 REP so
that they are harder to
bribe.
Good thing/Bad thing?
Thanks for you're
comment's and suggestions Iudas
they are always
welcome.
I am so tired man...
--------------------
But I, being poor, have only my
dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread
softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Quote:
The two abilities are only for the traders
scattered about
that don't fall into Trader Service,
Alchemist Service ect.
These only get the 45 Merc and 25 Speech
I missed that distinction in
your earlier post. MyBad.
Quote:
Iudas, if I pair back the mercantile skill changes, would you
think 89 in Merc and 89 in speechcraft is excessive?
For myself, I would like to
see a more normal distribution of trader levels across the game.
Some traders should be level 5 with a 20 in mercantile and easily
schmoozed. Some traders should be midlevel and a few of the really
rich traders should be very high level with 80's in mercantile and
silver tongues able to sell snow to the Nords.
I would like to
see some traders who have limited Mercantile skill have luck in the
high 90's, just to replicate the actuality of it's not always who or
what you know but how lucky you are. ( and given that most PCs tend
to shortchange themselves during level ups on the luck attribute
since it never gets more than 1 point/level, a lucky NPC is a deadly
opponent [Gaenor in Mournhold is a fine example ])
Over the
course of the game, the PC has to interact with a lot of potential
trading partners, if all of them are UBER and if you reduce the
contributions to skill progression in Merc and Speechcraft for the
PC then frustration sets in and the game becomes much less
enjoyable.
One change I think should be made is that the PC
should get a small benefit for failed persuasions on the theory that
one does learn from one's failures. So even though the schmooze
didn't succeed the first time, one adjusts one's schmooze because of
the feedback.
Making all the traders have the same level or the
same merc and speechcraft is not the optimal solution. Making them
more diverse in their levels and in their assorted skillsets and
reputations would come closer. Making their skillsets match their
bartergold levels would be a huge improvement. I can see having a
merchant with a lot of bartergold with just average levels of merc
and speechcraft but with a 100 in luck. I can see having some rich
merchants with levels in the 30's and 40's which gives them 60 or so
in Merc and still allows the PC to become better than they over the
long run( closer to what the PC's level can become before the entire
game becomes a cakewalk vis a vis the other components ).
Yes
to the Rep thing, although I have never seen any of the equations
that connect REP to disposition and thus to bartering.
One
thing I did try and had unexpected failures with was giving a weight
to gold coins in inventory. This causes a problem on barter because
the game doesn't allow gold to have weight. An encumbrance bug
cropped up that got really severe when I bought something ( in
dialogue ) for 300K in gold. The gold went the encumbrance
stayed.
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As soon as I
get the new PC (hopefully today) I will test the Crime Mod and ship
it out; I have had longer to work on it and longer to think and plan
it out than the Traders one.
Quote:
Making all the traders have the same level or the same merc
and speechcraft is not the optimal solution. Making them more
diverse in their levels and in their assorted skillsets and
reputations would come closer. Making their skillsets match their
bartergold levels would be a huge improvement. I can see having a
merchant with a lot of bartergold with just average levels of merc
and speechcraft but with a 100 in luck. I can see having some rich
merchants with levels in the 30's and 40's which gives them 60 or
so in Merc and still allows the PC to become better than they over
the long run( closer to what the PC's level can become before the
entire game becomes a cakewalk vis a vis the other components
).
I believe you are right
Iudas... it will take time and patience (I've been dealing with my
own real life crap as well).
I think having more wealthy and
challenging merchants in the larger settlements and then their
counterparts in the rural settings would feel right.
Quote:
I would like to see some traders who have limited Mercantile
skill have luck in the high 90's, just to replicate the actuality
of it's not always who or what you know but how lucky you are. (
and given that most PCs tend to shortchange themselves during
level ups on the luck attribute since it never gets more than 1
point/level, a lucky NPC is a deadly opponent [Gaenor in Mournhold
is a fine example ])
Oh... if only I had time to
make more enemies like Gaenor, my days would be happier, and my
dreams filled with visual lullaby’s.
Yes Iudas point taken 
Quote:
Yes to the Rep thing, although I have never seen any of the
equations that connect REP to disposition and thus to bartering.
I got the information from
Morrowind Mod Maker's Manual v1.6 by
Michael D. Edwards. It makes
the NPC's harder to bribe, the higher their Rep.
Quote:
One thing I did try and had unexpected failures with was
giving a weight to gold coins in inventory.
Thought about it... but didn’t
like it;
Good luck on you're mod Iudas,
I'll give you as
much help as I can;
in fact if I gave you 1/3 the amount
you
have given me... you'd have it finished
already!
--------------------
But
I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams
under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
Post Extras: |
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|
|
Quote:
One thing I did try and had unexpected failures with was
giving a weight to gold coins in inventory. This causes a problem
on barter because the game doesn't allow gold to have weight. An
encumbrance bug cropped up that got really severe when I bought
something ( in dialogue ) for 300K in gold. The gold went the
encumbrance stayed.
Yes, I've tried this before.
Causes horrendous problems. The only way it works is if you trade
actual gold coins instead (by this i mean when the barter windows
are showing, pick them up from your inventory, drop them in his) the
weight then registers correctly (so I recall), but you can't really
barter that way since you'll mess your weight up if the deal sums to
anythign other than zero.
--------------------
LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread
Homepage and download link
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| Iudas |
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| Posts: 1197 |
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Sorta general
philosophical postage here.
I like economics. Have spent the best
part of a misspent life either doing it or teaching it or trading
and buying and selling. Have played simulations of economics going
back to punchcard driven timeshared computers. What is intriguing
about MW is that when you push it one place it bounces all around
and pops out in multiple other unexpected places.
Can't mod crime
in MW without taking into account how it effects mercantile and
speechcraft and how it effects doing quests -> can't mod those
without taking into account how they interact with combat and magic
and stealth -> but then stealth feeds back into crime -> and
combat and magic and quests all can change reputation as can faction
membership -> but that changes bartering effects and crime ->
cant reprice weapons without effecting combat and changing the
dynamic balance between combat and magic and stealth -> can't
change soul gems without effecting bartering -> can't change
disease effects without changing Rep and Disp and thus bartering and
thus crime and quests and...
It's just beautiful. I mean seriously gorgeous.
Now add to that
all the interesting mods and the must have mods ... and the
expansions ....
I can understand easily how some of the few
hundred active modders get so involved in modding that they forget
to play the game.
Great good luck with the new PC, I look
forward to seeing your crime mod and playing it.
Funny thing, in
all the different attempts at doing a good traders mod, I have never
given any of the traders more BG nor repriced the weapons and
armour. It's really not the prices that matter it's the process of
bartering; of getting the most available from the resources in
inventory and the capability of the opponent. To give the traders
more money ( making them easier in effect ) is to me much the same
as giving the combat opponents weaker weapons and poorer armour and
calling it balance, or removing all the reflect spells from the
creatures and warlocks and evil wizard opponents and calling it
balance. All the richercreepermods and the cheaperweaponmods amount
to giving the edge to the PC at lower and lower
levels.
Understandable, I have yet to see a RP game that didn't
have a bunch of folks saying it's too hard and an eqivalent bunch
claiming it's too easy, a third bunch whining that it's not
realistic and a fourth kvetching that its too tedious and boring and
not enough of an escape from the quotidian. I actually have Iudas'
Rule which is that when all four sets of voices are equally loud
then it is either a very good game or a total waste of shelf space.
In the MW community the four sets of voices are about equally loud
and MW is one superb game.
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Quote:
(by this i mean when the barter windows are showing, pick them
up from your inventory, drop them in his)
I have never tried this approach.
With the use of the ctrl key to pick coins up one at a time it
should be possible to zero out any trade? But a question, when you
reopen the NPC's barter window is the gold you dropped on him still
in his barterable inventory or has it disappeared?
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